The Niger State Governor, Babangida Aliyu was a member of the group of seven governors (G7), who stormed out of Eagles square during the PDP national convention in August 2013, to register their displeasure against the party for what they perceived as injustice. At the heat of the crisis, five of his colleagues defected to the APC but he refused to move. Why? From all indications, the governor appears to be hanging out with the party with the hope that he will get the ticket to succeed President Goodluck Jonathan in 2019 if the president wins the March 28 presidential election. He actually confirmed this in this interview.
Apart from speaking to a select group of journalists on why he stayed put even when his colleagues defected to the opposition All Progressives Congress (APC), the governor also spoke on his fears and suggestions as regards the use of the Permanent Voters Card in the coming elections, his relationship with his embattled deputy, Ahmed Ibeto, how Buhari’s presidency will short change the North, his confidence on why the PDP will win the 2015 elections and his readiness to run for the 2019 presidential elections if his people as usual call on him to contest. JULIANA TAIWO-OBALONYE covered the session. Excerpts:
Your tenure is gradually winding up, can you give us very an overview of what you have done so far?
When I came the first thing we did was to say let’s have a vision first that will be shared by everybody, and we came up with vision 3:20:20, that is to say whatever we say or do was to make sure that we move Niger State toward the competition among the three top states in terms of development. And we knew that we could do it because of our agricultural potentialities and I am happy that we have come so far in that direction.
Many of the things that we have been doing, we have either come first, second or third in many of the states. For example, in the Poverty Alleviation Index for four consecutive years, Niger State has always come first, and it is in addition to what we have been doing in terms of poverty alleviation as well as in agricultural sector that has been helping our people.
We make sure that every farmer at least has been taking care of to be able to add more value to his farm and to his families. In addition, we went to the school system, when we came there were about 600,000 pupils in the primary and secondary schools. We looked at the problems: is it simply because people don’t want to send their children to school? And we discovered that even the little school fees was a problem to many of them. And there is a law in the land that many of us don’t remember and that is the law on UBEC that is Universal Basic Education. It is supposed to make primary and secondary education at the junior level free and that if you relate and you are able to at least pay your counterpart funding for the UBEC fund and I said we must do it.
We made sure we declared free education in the primary and secondary schools including the higher part of the school and we have succeeded in doing so. My happiness is that people have been talking about it that; look, what will happen to schools and payments of WAEC and NECO examinations when I leave the seat? This means it is really a challenge to whoever takes over from me to be able to do that.
I also said to myself as a former civil servant who is aware of the dependence on salaries by civil servants, I cannot understand why any state or any government that would find it difficult to pay salary for six months. You cannot talk of fighting corruption if you cannot pay people their salaries.
I made sure since I came in 2007 to date that salary is the first line item, we must pay salaries to all our workers no matter the circumstance before we go into other things. And then in each of these sectors that we have picked, for example when I arrived, I went to one school and I found about 100 pupils in a classroom. In fact, I found an embarrassing situation where I saw in one class, two classes backing one another with teachers in the same class. I stood there and they were all talking to the pupils and everybody was hearing everybody and then I discovered on the blackboard that the teachers were not better than the children they were teaching. Because in about three sentences I saw on the board, there were about seven mistakes there, and I decided we must get the teachers back to the classroom also to learn more about what they were doing, we must renovate and build more classrooms and I am happy that today we are talking about 1.4 million pupils in the primary and secondary schools.
At what point did the relationship between you and the deputy governor go sour and what is the true situation now?
The true situation is this, my deputy as a human being is not a very nice person as far as am concerned. We started very well and we were doing very well. In fact, he was the envy of many deputy governors, he told me himself and other deputy governors were even asking me I said well by this position I started politics as a student. In secondary school I was the Secretary General of over 10 associations and clubs and by 1983, I was a member of House of Representatives in Lagos and I was a leader, national officer of the NUT, Nigeria Union of Teachers. I know that for you to be able to succeed all the people that you are working with must be brought very close to you and we have been doing very well.
Our differences started when the primaries for the contest of the gubernatorial candidates came. I spoke with him and I said look many people have told me, I have not seen any agreement on the ground, but many people have said that they had an agreement with you because I wasn’t around when he was selected a deputy governor, I inherited him rather, because he was a deputy gubernatorial candidate before I was even a gubernatorial candidate. I was told there was an agreement because of this kind of friction that will happen that anybody selected as deputy governor should not vie for governorship so as to reduce the tension that used to be in the polity and that after consultation because we have a zoning arrangement and I believe it is the arrangement that brought me, because it was the turn of the B zone which is Suleja up to Kagara. Suleja, Minna, Kagara about nine local governments are what constitute the B Zone.
Zone A which Engr. Abdulkadir Kure served as governor from 1999 to 2007 and that is from Lapia up to Mokwa which is about eight, nine local governments or thereabouts. It is now the turn of Zone C which is Kontogora and Borgu emirates. Some people tried to say no, let’s get where will give PDP more support, the chances to win and I said no! We needed to go round first and then what happens after that is not in our hands. And I stood on my position and I was lucky that we won that Zone C should produce the gubernatorial candidate and I went round to consult with people and I gave them 18 names of people from that zone and they kept prioritizing and believe me, my deputy did not come number 10 out of the 18. And I went to his house to tell him that I would prefer the way we came by the grace of God, because before he became deputy governor, they had already elected a deputy governor, who died before the election. My deputy governor who was then a member of the House of Representatives, they had even taken away that ticket of the House of Representatives from him, telling him to wait if the elections were won he will be given something, but suddenly the deputy governor died and he was given the slot.
About 13 people ran for the primaries and through disqualification and co, I was given the chance to come and contest. For me, I saw it that it was God that brought the two of us together and I thought I owed him this explanation, so I went to him to say look I have gone round to consult people and this is the result of what I have got. Please if it is possible withdraw from this race for all these other eight or nine people to contest. He said no, that he was a politician and therefore what he begged of me was to allow him to contest even if he wasn’t going to win and even if I wasn’t going to assist him. And I said if that is what you feel, go ahead.
We went to the contest, he came number three in the contest and he felt bad that I did not support him to get the candidature. The candidature that I told him right from day one, I went to his house. In Niger State, I go to anywhere, I go to people’s houses and sit down with them and this governorship thing has not got into my head, because with the way I grew up there is no way any position can enter my head to feel that I am that too important to do certain things. But my shock was that he went to the social media and wrote to say that that was the first time I went to his house, I kept quiet. After the primaries, in fact, he didn’t tell me but people told me when he went to meet with General Buhari in Abuja.
When we went for the coronation of the Emir of Agai, I travelled to Saudi Arabia and when I came back, I drove straight to Agai from Abuja for the coronation of the emir, that was when I asked him, I heard you are defecting, do you think that is the most credible thing to do? He said he was getting pressured from his people. Believe me, I will have felt happier if he had come to me to say sir, because of what transpired at the primaries and the situation he was in, that he would have loved to move to another party, believe me nobody would have heard anything.
Even now, immediately I was told that he has defected, all I said is that constitutionally he is still the deputy governor of Niger State and all his rights and privileges would be protected. But the issue that came is a moral one even if not legal, we were elected on the same ticket. No governor will be elected or will be qualified for election unless he has a deputy governor but then after election a deputy governor defected to another party. If our judicial system works, a statement would have been made very categorical as to the meaning of mandate and the meaning of defection. Some people said, it is not necessary because of the Supreme Court judgment on Atiku/Obasanjo issue, but I think even if there is a legal issue, we must begin to demand the moral part of it.
What is your observation as regards the use of the card reader and if you were given an opportunity to recommend, what system of voting would you have recommended?
Down the road, I think in some years to come we can go for electronic voting when things will be touch and go, but given the literacy rate of our people, we need to be careful the kind of innovation that we are bringing into place. Those of us who were briefed properly on the card reader; we were told your handset has certain capacity, if you fill up they will tell you to buy more so that you can recharge. The card reader has about 600 kilobyte but only 40 kilobyte were used based on the information put there. What happens to the 560 kilobyte that is there?
Because of the number that is remaining isn’t it possible that you could have put many things there? Somebody came to me, I have not confirmed this, because it wasn’t done in my presence that if you put your ATM card because it is almost the same process that it is likely that your picture and your thumb print may come up and may show that it is almost a voter’s card. What about a situation where you go to a particular place and the reader rejects your card? And you are the only one that will not be able to vote in that place? It may be mistake maybe that is not your polling unit but do you know the kind of crisis that will follow?
The card has a picture of the person, what is wrong in simply going the simplest way, the picture is in front of whoever is in charge of the polling unit and the people that are there are the people of that same area, and they will know if somebody is coming with an issue. This cloning issue that was raised in Lagos, how have we resolved it? Because if you see for example the APC shouting card reader, card reader what is it that they know that we don’t know about? Those are some of the issues and the test that has taken place, I saw on some of the television stations all the people they spoke with talked about that this is very good and co, but then the report I am getting on the ground is slightly different than that on the television. For me, if there is no problem with the card reader, I don’t have any problem. We can do anything that will enhance the credibility of our elections, but don’t bring something that will create more problems. If I am told that a cloned card will be rejected by the reader, why not? But if I am told that there is room to manipulate it, then I have a problem, but otherwise for me, make it as simple as possible then as we go you can begin to add things that will make it better.
We have never had a situation where our democracy has been up to sixteen years. At independence from 1960 to 1966, Shagari government 1979 to 1983 then you had what you can call a diarchy that came up during IBB and during Sani Abacha and what have you. This is the first time we are getting this and we must be able to crawl, walk and then run later, we must understand this.
In fact, when INEC scheduled elections in February, I kept asking myself why February? Why the long distance between February and May 29? I thought they did it to see if many of the petitions will have been resolved but that explanation is not good enough because you can’t go and force them to say they must finish this and that before so, so time. And there is room for appeal, there is room to go to the Supreme Court, in fact, one of my Supreme Court judgments came almost after two years of the administration.
There is this administrative issue, the Chairman of INEC’s first term tenure is supposed to expire in June and there was all this politics of whether he could go on leave preparatory to expiration of tenure and it has become a political thing that people speculating the President wants to get rid of him. The President cannot get rid of him, the process has to be followed properly. So that is the only reason why they took election to February, but we saw that February they were not ready, because they tested the card readers yesterday (last Saturday) and even at the time they were saying that some of the PVCs have not been printed. When you hear some people talking, it’s not generally political, it is the real fact that is coming out.
I remember after the council of state meeting where they put my name that I am for postponement; if any time my understanding of facts are correct, I will say it out. No matter what position you think you are and whether it is good or bad. I am not one of those who would look at things and say politically it is unwise to say this and that, you should say the truth every time even if at that time it might not be very savoury to some people, a time will come when you will be vindicated.
If I were to suggest now, with the controversy of this card reader and no card reader, go straight to the way we are used to. The PVC is there, in fact, technically, the days are coming by. I could not have received my PVC until I gave my temporary card. So anybody with PVC I want to assume he does not have his temporary card with him. If by the time we are going for election it is only 80 or 85 per cent they should give room for those who have registered and have not collected their PVC for whatever reason and should be allowed to come and show their temporary card, because if they have collected the PVC they will not have had that temporary card. That is the way I see it so that they don’t create too many controversies and legally if you registered even 10 people and technically you deprived them – it is not that they don’t want to come, you could register 100 people in election if 30 per cent attend it is legitimate because you did not stop the other 70 per cent from coming. But a person who comes only to be deprived because of one technicality or the other may nullify the election itself, we must get this at the back of our minds and I think INEC is aware of this.
Former President Olusegun Obasanjo just dumped your party, is there anything you are doing to bring him back to the PDP and what are those consequences his departure will likely cause the party?
People have a right to leave a party at any given time. In fact, given his background for a long time, many of us thought he should be non-partisan so that his status as a statesman will be more established, because once you are partisan, it is difficult when you talk that people do not see it in that partisan nature. For me, it is like he has done what he should have done many years ago, but the way he went about it I think it leaves much to be desired.
Statesmen don’t tear party cards in public, particularly those of us who have benefited tremendously no matter how we feel about a particular situation. There are many ways and there are processes of leaving a political party. Even if I go as a governor today to say am tearing my party card as far as my party is concerned, I have not left it, because the constitution has registered me as a member and has also provided a process of how I will leave and if I didn’t satisfy that, it means I have not left. I think we must be very conscious of that and I am sure many Nigerians are concerned with that political activity.
As to what we have lost, I think he has given us the best, he has produced enough people in PDP to be able to win elections whether he is there or he is not there. In fact, we are very lucky that he is still alive with us. If he had died, would we have said he left PDP? No! That he has gone to be a statesman and now whatever he says will be seen as real statesman, not a partisan person. I think this is wonderful for Nigeria.
In view of the fact that the election is close by, we try to weigh your party’s chances against General Buhari. There is so much apprehension in the land in view of the fact that some Nigerians believe that the PDP-led government has failed the nation and they are desirous of a change. If you compare the chances of Jonathan against Buhari, what do you predict?
I predict that PDP will win this election, because it is not about noise or the campaign period. It is also about the institutionalisation that has taken place. In every village there is a PDP, the change of APC is more of a sentiment and many of us are wiser to appreciate what happened during the primaries of APC in Lagos. For me, if they had brought Kwankwaso and Amaechi: Kwakwaso presidential candidate, Amaechi Vice-Presidential candidate, I would have said yes APC is looking for a change. But the way and manner and the bullion vans that many of us did not see during that primary and the fact that the Tinubus of this world appreciate what is on the ground and manipulated the process to produce their presidential candidate tells me that PDP will form the next government.
Why do I say so? Many of us from this part appreciate the implication. Buhari said he was going to serve only one term, does that mean the North will be shortchanged again? Because he does not have the capacity to say I am serving one term therefore when I am going, it will be a Northerner that will serve the rest term. And any reasonable person can appreciate one thing, people who control economic power, you don’t give them political power and that for a balance, the tripod of what has been should be retained. By 2019, at least we will know this our assumed zoning even if it is not constitutional that power now comes to the North there is a force majeure it could happen, but that we must be careful that sentiment does not carry us to where we will run into a problem.
Tinubu said he is taking many people to court so I wouldn’t use that angle but all of us I think whether a party leader or people in government must be able to bring what they had before they came into office and what they have after leaving office. If we are all made to do that, then we will be able to appreciate why some people are following a particular pattern. As for predictions, PDP will form the federal government.
People are saying the Senate is now a retirement home, are you retiring to the Senate?
I am not retiring, I am marking time. The Senate is supposed to be for experienced people that is why you have two Houses. The House of Representatives for slightly younger elements, for people who can come with fire and then the Senate as a balancer. Any person who successfully governs a state should be able to be seen more even if not a statesman but a more mature person. Who will be able to balance the two things, that is why you have only about 100 people in the Senate and then over 300 in the House of Representatives. It is not really a retirement home, that is where you may do more research because you don’t open your mouth in the National Assembly or in any congress and co, you don’t open your mouth until you are sure of the fact that you are going to speak on. So, that cannot be a retirement home, even if others have thought it is a retirement home, I think we should change that pattern that anybody who goes there must have the ability to do the spirit and the words of the constitution.
With what you are saying about the North being shortchanged should Buhari run, are you going to run for the post of the President in 2019?
I have a problem in that direction, believe me all the positions I ran for even the House of Representatives that I ran for in 1983, it was the people who said come, even this Senate it wasn’t me who said I wanted it, if I am alive and if the people ask me or if the people say I should come out and run for 2019, will I accept? Yes, I accept even before the question.
